Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-women
[15:01:13] <issyl0> Hi!
[15:01:17] <svaksha> hi
[15:01:21] <pleia2> ok, roll call for the meeting :) who all is here?
[15:01:26] <akgraner> o/
[15:01:27] * issyl0 !
[15:01:27] * svaksha is
[15:01:37] <bapoumba> hello :)
[15:01:42] <Pendulum> o/
[15:01:45] <freesitebuilder> present
[15:01:45] <AlanBell> present
[15:01:51] <JanC> o/
[15:02:00] <MarkDude366MHz> here
[15:02:08] <Seeker`> hi
[15:02:09] <Pendulum> (for the record, I may also answer as pendulum_ if I get kicked off the internet at work)
[15:02:57] <pleia2> ok, our agenda is here: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/Agenda
[15:03:06] <pleia2> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/Agenda
[15:03:20] <jono> o/
[15:03:40] <afigueir1s> here
[15:03:49] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Clarify the purpose of the ubuntu-women channel
[15:03:57] <pleia2> [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/IrcPurpose
[15:04:44] * elky props eyelids open with matchsticks
[15:05:46] <pleia2> given that the discussion on the mailing list hasn't lasted the 2 weeks we had planned before a vote, I think we only want to spend a few minutes outlining some things to update the wiki with
[15:05:57] * issyl0 will mostly be observing :)
[15:06:32] <pleia2> the discussion on list is still pretty vibrant, and I don't want to make a vote before everyone feels they have been heard
[15:06:41] * svaksha nods
[15:06:52] <elky> i'm glad we're not rushing it :)
[15:07:20] <akgraner> enjoying seeing the discussion..and weighing the options
[15:07:21] <pleia2> [LINK] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-women/2010-January/thread.html#2356
[15:07:34] <svaksha> should'nt we also outline who gets to vote...as in women first (yeah this is tricky online), but...
[15:07:34] <afigueir1s> pleia2: so we should express our opinion in the list first?
[15:07:37] <pleia2> that's the thread if anyone hasn't seen it (I encourage you to subscribe to the list)
[15:07:47] <MarkDude366MHz> The group should decide it's vision, based on the *group* vision - not possible perceptions.
[15:07:58] <svaksha> afigueir1s: go ahead, it helps to document opinions
[15:08:14] <pleia2> afigueir1s: on list and brainstorms can also be put on the wiki page I linked above (IrcPurpose)
[15:08:24] <pleia2> easier than sorting out what we're all saying in IRC from day to day :)
[15:08:30] <Pendulum> I'd suggest expanding the "options" list on the wiki page to be broken down the way I think it was akgraner's e-mail did which seemed to make things clearer for some people
[15:08:32] <afigueir1s> ok
[15:09:02] <pleia2> svaksha: as far as who can vote, that will be something the new leader has to help us work through (there will be a leader by the time we vote)
[15:09:10] <elky> Pendulum, it might just be that i'm freshly woken, but that seemed to be 6 of the same option and 1 different one.
[15:09:16] <elky> or was it 5 and 1
[15:09:22] <Seeker`> who gets to vote on who is the leader?
[15:09:35] <elky> either way, i couldn't see the differences clearly
[15:09:48] <elky> Seeker`, nobody. it's not an election. it's an appointment. despite what it's called.
[15:09:55] <pleia2> Seeker`: the CC is selecting a leader http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuWomen/LeadershipNominationsProcess/January2010
[15:10:00] <Seeker`> ah, ok
[15:10:22] <akgraner> Seeker`, the CC will make a decision nlt the 15 of this month
[15:10:30] * svaksha see's the leader as someone who lets the group decide its focus, etc...only steps in when there is a gridlock,
[15:10:41] <elky> the name is confusing enough people that i've had to say this every other day.
[15:10:43] <pleia2> Pendulum: I agree that a summary like akgraner's should be put on the wiki
[15:10:57] <elky> svaksha, yep
[15:11:27] <pleia2> Pendulum: can you or akgraner take this task?
[15:11:38] <maco> elky: yeah i coudlnt see the difference in the first 2. the third was slightly different
[15:11:40] <akgraner> I can
[15:12:17] <Pendulum> maco elky: the first was open to topics outside Ubuntu, the 2nd was specific to Ubuntu only
[15:12:24] <pleia2> svaksha: please feel free to add "who votes" to our meeting agenda for next time, I don't think we'll have time for it today :)
[15:12:31] <mdz> svaksha, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncil/Delegation explains what community leaders do
[15:12:37] <svaksha> pleia2: ok
[15:12:41] <elky> Pendulum, ah. thanks
[15:12:54] <mdz> akgraner, I think a table might help to present the options more clearly
[15:13:01] <Pendulum> (and then the 3 main options were doubled for logging vs. not logging)
[15:13:08] <akgraner> mdz, yep that's what I was thinking too
[15:13:08] <maco> Pendulum: ah ok
[15:13:23] <maco> mdz: agreed
[15:13:24] <elky> Pendulum, then mixed up for a good dose of sleepy-eyes-confusion?
[15:13:54] <pleia2> [ACTION] akgraner will be updating IrcPurpose with outline of options for purpose
[15:14:05] <maco> maybe make a list of topics then put a channel name inside each box that goes with it for each option row?
[15:14:14] <akgraner> I tried to express in Broad terms the way I heard people view the channel purpose
[15:14:20] <maco> topics being the column headers
[15:14:27] <pleia2> [ACTION] Channel purpose discussion to continue on list, formal decision deferred
[15:14:49] <keakulani> hi all
[15:15:02] <pleia2> ok, unless there are any concerns I'd like to move on to the next topic
[15:15:52] <maco> keakulani: we're in the middle of a meeting
[15:15:53] <elky> pleia2, concerns i think have another week or so to be aired?
[15:15:55] <akgraner> no objection
[15:16:02] <maco> elky: yep
[15:16:02] <pleia2> elky: yep
[15:16:07] <elky> pleia2, a date to look towards would be useful though
[15:16:26] <pleia2> elky: we'll probably take it up at our next meeting (which I'd like to see happen in 2 weeks)
[15:16:28] <elky> and a way to resolve without subjecting folks to yet another meeting?
[15:16:38] <elky> aha, WFM
[15:16:39] <pleia2> 2 weeks gives a enw leader a week to settle in, and to introduce herself to the team
[15:16:45] <pleia2> WFM?
[15:16:51] <elky> !wfm
[15:16:51] <ubottu> Common Sense: Just because you can, does not mean you should (and especially recommend to others). Think before you do. "Works for me" does not mean it is ok. The latest version of everything is not always useful if you aim for stability. Please see http://geekosophical.net/random/worksforme/
[15:17:00] <pleia2> okie
[15:17:15] <afigueir1s> so, no voting on a leader today?
[15:17:26] <elky> (although, one would hope the new leader needs no introduction)
[15:17:33] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Vote on replacing current UW wiki home page with /NewHome
[15:17:40] <Pendulum> afigueir1s: no voting on a leader, period. the CC is making the decision
[15:17:50] <elky> afigueir1s, voting is in form of putting testimonials on the pages for people to review. today is the last day i think
[15:17:54] <afigueir1s> Pendulum: oh, nice
[15:18:04] <svaksha> afigueir1s: there is no vote, the cc picks one woman out of 3 noms
[15:18:11] <pleia2> elky did a great job on redoing our wiki page: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/NewHome
[15:18:23] <pleia2> which will replace the current http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/
[15:18:33] <elky> which is tl;dr imho :)
[15:18:33] <pleia2> I have only heard postive things about it :)
[15:18:35] <svaksha> +1
[15:18:45] <MarkDude366MHz> +1
[15:18:47] <freesitebuilder> +1
[15:18:50] <Pendulum> +1
[15:18:52] <pleia2> wait wait, we haven't started voting yet!
[15:18:57] <pleia2> anyone have any comments?
[15:19:05] <Pendulum> good job on it elky!
[15:19:11] <MarkDude366MHz> It's a good clean design.
[15:19:11] <elky> i think the comments are a 1 preceeded by a + :P
[15:19:15] <AlanBell> is that header include to be added to all other pages?
[15:19:18] <akgraner> +1
[15:19:28] <elky> AlanBell, yes, once it's migrated. confusion abounds if done earlier
[15:19:42] <AlanBell> ok, action for someone then :-)
[15:19:49] <pleia2> [VOTE] Replacing current UW wiki home page with /NewHome
[15:19:50] <elky> ugh, eyelash, brb
[15:19:57] <pleia2> +1
[15:20:00] <akgraner> +1
[15:20:01] <JanC> hm, I think expecting a complete translation of the wiki is a bit much
[15:20:02] <svaksha> +1, aggain
[15:20:05] <Pendulum> +1
[15:20:05] <MarkDude366MHz> +1
[15:20:17] <popey> JanC: its not the whole of the ubuntu wiki :)
[15:20:20] <bapoumba> +1
[15:20:26] <pleia2> hey bapoumba :)
[15:20:29] <JanC> popey: I know
[15:20:30] <issyl0> +1
[15:20:32] <svaksha> +1
[15:20:33] <afigueir1s> +1
[15:20:39] <dragon> +1
[15:20:43] <bapoumba> hello pleia2 :)
[15:20:50] <freesitebuilder> +1
[15:20:58] <elky> back
[15:21:11] <elky> +1 if i do say so myself
[15:21:11] <AlanBell> +1
[15:21:14] <pleia2> [endvote]
[15:21:17] <pleia2> that's plenty :)
[15:21:26] <svaksha> :)
[15:21:32] <pleia2> elky: feel free to move the content as soon as you have the opportunity :D
[15:21:44] <elky> i'll see how i go at work later
[15:22:05] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Discussion of tracking proportion of female Ubuntu Members
[15:22:09] <pleia2> whose item is this?
[15:22:21] <Pendulum> pleia2: was started by althara and AlanBell, IIRC
[15:22:21] <elky> the name was on the agenda. a linda someone?
[15:22:33] <elky> aha, althara is linda :)
[15:22:36] <AlanBell> well I am here
[15:22:49] <pleia2> elky: that's the next item, not this one :)
[15:23:11] <AlanBell> they are very similar items really
[15:23:16] <pleia2> AlanBell: where is the wiki page that you put together?
[15:23:19] * pleia2 doesn't have link handy
[15:23:27] <AlanBell> http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers
[15:23:39] <AlanBell> http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/lplist.py
[15:23:41] <pleia2> oh, it was the one linked on the agenda, silly me
[15:23:55] <pleia2> thanks for your work on this AlanBell :)
[15:24:02] <AlanBell> ok, so I guess I will say a bit then
[15:24:05] <pleia2> one of the things people have been asking for for a long time is some solid numbers
[15:24:08] * AlanBell is not very prepared
[15:24:10] <pleia2> please do
[15:24:30] * svaksha has not renewed her Ubuntu membership and thinks membership should not be forced.
[15:24:41] <mdz> svaksha, forced?
[15:24:50] <AlanBell> so I wanted to find some objective measures of things, and failed to find some so decided to do what I could
[15:24:53] <svaksha> s/forced/compulsary :)
[15:25:12] <althara> no one is talking about compulsary membership
[15:25:13] <AlanBell> with a lot of help from everyone here we managed to figure out how many of the Ubuntu Members are women
[15:25:16] <mdz> svaksha, it isn't
[15:25:18] <svaksha> mdz: numbers are not the best measure to everything
[15:25:27] <AlanBell> it is not by any means compulsory
[15:25:31] <althara> just about tracking the numbe rof female members and encouraging people to become members if they so wish
[15:25:38] <AlanBell> but it is a measure of commitment
[15:25:47] <AlanBell> there is very very little reward for doing it
[15:25:55] <AlanBell> which I think is a good thing
[15:26:07] <dinda> I think it's just more being supportive of women who do decide to go for membership, not force anyone
[15:26:12] <svaksha> mdz: i know, it isnt
[15:26:14] <pleia2> dinda: *nod*
[15:26:17] <mdz> svaksha, Ubuntu members = people who are recognized as being "sustained and significant" contributors to Ubuntu
[15:26:19] <AlanBell> it draws a defined line around a set of people which you can do statistical analysis of
[15:26:28] <elky> i can see how svaksha might be... intimidated? by this if she feels guilted for not "doing her bit" so to speak.
[15:26:49] <JanC> mdz: no, Ubuntu members = people who asked to be recognized as being "sustained and significant" contributors to Ubuntu
[15:26:51] <dinda> anecdotal stories tell us that lots of women feel they "haven't contributed enough" when in reality they've done a great deal
[15:26:51] <mdz> therefore, proportion of women among members should correlate reasonably well with the proportion of contributors
[15:26:57] <AlanBell> and you can then talk in objective terms about the success of this project within Ubuntu
[15:27:03] <svaksha> AlanBell: i like contributing without being reduced to a number and am still committed since 2005
[15:27:11] <svaksha> :)
[15:27:16] <mdz> JanC, yes, so it's not 100% but it's a lot better than nothing
[15:27:18] <issyl0> :)
[15:27:20] <AlanBell> so we figured out it was 4% ish
[15:27:27] <mdz> otherwise we are left to guess who is a contributor and who is not
[15:27:36] <AlanBell> which is better than Free software overall
[15:27:40] <svaksha> elky: nope, you interpreted it all wrong
[15:27:41] <AlanBell> and could be better still
[15:27:47] <pleia2> svaksha: we aren't forcing anyone, as dinda says a lot of women feel they can't become one, we're here to encourage them if we believe otherwise and to go for it if they want :)
[15:27:49] <JanC> many peopel don't care about beinbg recognized officially...
[15:27:56] <bapoumba> AlanBell, how did you get to that number ?
[15:27:59] <svaksha> pleia2: that is fine
[15:27:59] <elky> svaksha, good, i'd hate for someone to feel intimidated
[15:28:15] <AlanBell> I did some further analysis and wrote a simple python script to get dates from launchpad
[15:28:26] <bapoumba> dates ?
[15:28:28] <AlanBell> which allowed some graphs of the improvement over time
[15:28:32] <mdz> JanC, nonetheless, what is being discussed here is useful
[15:28:35] <svaksha> elky: its not always emotional, or related to fear
[15:28:37] <AlanBell> dates people joined the Ubuntu-members group
[15:28:45] <AlanBell> and the dates they joined launchpad
[15:29:02] <bapoumba> and how did you spot women ?
[15:29:19] <AlanBell> so you can see a trend of about 0.5% per cycle
[15:29:19] <pleia2> bapoumba: we had a spreadsheet and went through it manually
[15:29:48] <bapoumba> where do people say their gender on launchpad ?
[15:29:49] <pleia2> so there certainly is a certain margin for error, but I think our analysis is mostly accurate
[15:29:55] <AlanBell> so up to now I don't think there has been that much *specific* focus on getting women through the process
[15:29:57] <pleia2> it was based on more than just LP
[15:30:10] <bapoumba> what else ?
[15:30:15] <AlanBell> bapoumba: there was an email about it, I will link that later, or Amber's blog
[15:30:25] <bapoumba> okay
[15:30:36] <bapoumba> I missed all of this :)
[15:30:41] <AlanBell> so the question is, do you want it to carry on at 0.5% per cycle?
[15:30:47] <AlanBell> do you want it to speed up a bit?
[15:30:49] <svaksha> bapoumba: its on the list
[15:30:55] <AlanBell> where do you want it to get to?
[15:30:56] <pleia2> testimonials, meeting people in person, other info about them they give online
[15:31:10] <MarkDude366MHz> .5% to 5% good goal to start with.
[15:31:10] <pleia2> AlanBell: at this point in the project I believe staying the course is good
[15:31:21] <pleia2> 2009 was a phenominal year for getting female ubuntu membership up
[15:31:22] <AlanBell> I think a specific and achievable target per cycle should be set
[15:31:43] <AlanBell> I think 2% per cycle is the upper end of reasonable and achievable
[15:32:12] <AlanBell> I think 1% would be a good challenge
[15:32:18] <dinda> are there any general guidelines for membership targets? that is is there any overall project to just get more ubuntu members?
[15:32:21] <AlanBell> I think 0.5% will happen all by itself
[15:32:47] <mdz> AlanBell, really?
[15:33:09] <MarkDude366MHz> 5% in one year. regionally it is possible in some areas quicker.
[15:33:12] <AlanBell> long term I have a hunch that a lot of the non-quantifiable issues will just go away if the figure exceeds 10%
[15:33:32] <pleia2> dinda: it's my understanding that the point of the goal is to get us to chug along with our recruitment of women to ubuntu, our projects like mentoring (getting women in touch with people who can help them), and keeping this place a friendly and inviting place where people feel they can start contributing
[15:34:02] <pleia2> so it's not just "woo members" it's about incentive to do the things we already do, but more
[15:34:10] <dinda> pleia2: was just wondering if there was any other efforts, ala the US teams one to get more states approved, in terms of general Ubuntu membership
[15:34:14] <AlanBell> one thing that I discovered was that the modal length of time from creating a launchpad account to becomming a member is about 450 days
[15:34:18] <mdz> dinda, not as such, no. we do aim to get more contributors, but there isn't a global effort to get people to become members as far as I know
[15:34:25] <pleia2> dinda: some loco teams do
[15:34:45] <mdz> dinda, we're straying a bit from the point here though
[15:34:55] <AlanBell> there would appear to be scope to encourage women to become members a bit sooner, maybe 6 months or so
[15:35:00] <pleia2> at UDS we were encouraging loco teams to nudge their members tob ecome ubuntu members, in fact :)
[15:35:17] <dinda> mdz: was thinking aloud that partnering with a larger effort will naturally bring in more women
[15:35:27] <AlanBell> another thing that might be worth doing is making sure that the existing members are retained, perhaps contacting those close to expiry
[15:36:12] <AlanBell> ok, I am about done talking, will add the link to Amber's blog in a sec
[15:36:27] <pleia2> AlanBell: I'm not convinced about the contacting them thing, it seems intrusive to me
[15:36:44] <dragon> In efforts to increase the percentage of women Ubuntu members, does discouraging men from applying count?
[15:36:53] <dragon> (not sure if that's been said before)
[15:36:57] <althara> dragon: Uh, no
[15:37:01] <pleia2> instead I think just continuing to support women through this project, letting them know this place is here for them
[15:37:03] <dinda> we're aiming for 5% or .5% but of what overall number? if there is some larger effort to get say 100 new members in each cycle then we know we're trying to get at least 5 new members this cycle
[15:37:06] <AlanBell> pleia2: oh, I figured someone would know them personally anyway
[15:37:19] <AlanBell> dragon: nope
[15:37:21] <pleia2> dragon: no, we don't want to discourage anyone!
[15:37:22] <dragon> statistically it helps.
[15:37:38] <AlanBell> dragon: yes, but no
[15:37:47] <AlanBell> http://amber.redvoodoo.org/2009/12/alan-bell-on-becoming-ubuntu-member.html
[15:37:48] <dragon> AlanBell: agreed.
[15:37:49] <althara> yes, but the point is to get women involved not to get fewer men involved
[15:38:03] <pleia2> althara: yep :)
[15:38:32] <AlanBell> oh, one more thing, I am happy to update the charts every month or two, but also very happy to hand over the lot to someone else
[15:38:37] <elky> dinda, maintaining a momentum seems to be the primary objective. We can't predict how many members will appear overall, we can aim to keep up with the momentum we've been maintaining.
[15:38:44] <pleia2> AlanBell: thank you for your work on this :)
[15:39:07] <AlanBell> pleia2: no problem :-)
[15:39:15] <pleia2> elky: can we get his wiki link added somewhere on the shiny new wiki?
[15:39:36] <AlanBell> s/his/our/
[15:39:37] <elky> pleia2, it would be ideal for /Projects methinks
[15:39:49] <maco> another thing that might be worth doing is making sure that the existing members are retained, perhaps contacting those close to expiry <-- they get emails saying "you're going to expire. press this button to renew"
[15:39:51] <elky> action it to me :)
[15:40:18] <popey> maco: which many people ignore
[15:40:22] <popey> or it goes to spam
[15:40:23] <pleia2> [ACTION] elky to add http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers link to main wiki
[15:40:26] <AlanBell> maco: I know that. 21:24 * svaksha has not renewed her Ubuntu membership and thinks membership should not be forced.
[15:40:35] <maco> AlanBell: svaksha chose not to
[15:40:38] <pleia2> AlanBell: that was intentional
[15:40:41] <maco> AlanBell: it wasnt a matter of reminding
[15:40:46] <AlanBell> which is fine
[15:40:49] <MarkDude366MHz> We can be mentors- everyone recruit a few new members at least 1.
[15:40:50] <dinda> popey: if I recall, the email was pretty sparse on details of how to renew, reasons to renew
[15:41:09] <afigueir1s> why is it so important to get new members? maybe there are plenty of womem that aren't official members but still help
[15:41:14] <popey> yeah dinda
[15:41:15] <dinda> does it remind folks that they'll lose their ubuntu.com addy if they let their membership expire?
[15:41:23] <popey> we could file a bug on launchpad
[15:41:25] <popey> get the text changed
[15:41:31] <MarkDude366MHz> afigueir1s, bug#1
[15:41:37] <elky> MarkDude366MHz, we have a mentor programme which needs a little bit of an overhaul, but that's probably a touch outside the scope of this specific discussion. others may agree
[15:41:38] <dinda> is it just one email?
[15:41:38] <althara> afigueir1s: It's a another metric we can use to increase the visiblity of women in Ubuntu
[15:41:38] <popey> problem is its a generic mail for any team
[15:41:40] <AlanBell> afigueir1s: it is important to have a statistic that can be used for marketing purposes
[15:41:42] <MarkDude366MHz> and world domination :)
[15:41:44] <elky> s/agree/disagree/
[15:41:48] <pleia2> afigueir1s: there are a lot of women who don't feel they *can* become members, we want to encourage them to if theyw ant to become one
[15:41:48] <AlanBell> amongst other things
[15:42:07] <AlanBell> MarkDude366MHz: I for one welcome . . ah never mind
[15:42:08] <dinda> popey: b/c I know when I got the first one it kind of got lost in my inbox for awhile
[15:42:10] <maco> afigueir1s: we're counting members in this case because its hard to count people-who-arnt-members-but-i-once-heard-they-were-helpful
[15:42:27] <pleia2> re: Mentoring - right now we just put women in touch with folks within the wider community who can help them if no one here has expertise or time to mentor
[15:42:55] <afigueir1s> AlanBell: maybe we could try to understand how many women aren't members but still contribute
[15:43:17] <AlanBell> afigueir1s: no, because then we would have to do the same for men to get a meaningful statistic
[15:43:22] <Seeker`> surely number of people in this channel is a sort-of metric
[15:43:25] <maco> on that note: if anyone wants motu mentoring, i'm happy to answer questions :)
[15:43:30] <pleia2> maco: yay :)
[15:43:37] <afigueir1s> AlanBell: oh, ok
[15:43:40] <AlanBell> and that would be very hard, and I suspect not favourable
[15:43:44] <Seeker`> i would imagine that you can determine the gender of most of the regulars
[15:43:54] <pleia2> I think we want to move this discussion back a bit towards Linda's suggestion
[15:43:59] <JanC> well, many "Ubuntu Members" aren't active anymore, and many people are active but not visible --> no way to get good statistics
[15:44:19] <althara> JanC: The point is working with what we have access to
[15:44:21] * svaksha lost connection, can someone send logs in private please
[15:44:22] <elky> dinda, popey had to poke me too. i think he watches his launchpad folder like a hawk
[15:44:33] <JanC> althara: I understand that :
[15:44:38] <AlanBell> JanC: the membership expires after 2 years if not renewed. That is the existing definition of active and I wouldn't want to try and invent a new definition
[15:44:59] <popey> elky: s/launchpad/inbox :)
[15:45:13] <JanC> AlanBell: clicking a web button once every 2 years is hardly my defintion of "active", but hey ;)
[15:45:18] <popey> i have nudged a few people who have expired and helped them extend
[15:45:22] <elky> popey, you don't have filtering? i'd die without it!
[15:45:25] <popey> and I've also renewed people who expired
[15:45:37] <popey> (if they want me to)
[15:45:45] <pleia2> [TOPIC] UW members will encourage women to apply to become Ubuntu Members, help women navigate the formal Ubuntu Member application process, and provide feedback and testimonials as appropriate.
[15:45:46] <popey> we dont require people to go back to the membership boards
[15:46:00] <pleia2> we already sort of do this, I think we can all agree it's a good use of project resources?
[15:46:08] <elky> popey, not anymore, anyway
[15:46:09] <althara> I think so
[15:46:30] <dinda> popey: that was the part that wasn't clear to me, thought I had to reappear, but pleia2 explained all I needed to to do was click the button
[15:46:33] <svaksha> again, i lost connection, can someone send logs in private please
[15:46:39] <elky> pleia2, yeah, i was wondering why there was no "continue to" in there :P
[15:46:54] <pleia2> elky: yeah, I am just following the agenda! :)
[15:47:26] <elky> svaksha, at what point did you lose connection? your client might have stayed after this point. i'll need to know
[15:47:32] <pleia2> [Conclusion]
[15:47:34] <akgraner> Great use of resources..
[15:47:35] <pleia2> er
[15:47:47] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Conclusion
[15:47:50] * pleia2 fails at MootBot :)
[15:48:18] <Seeker`> :P
[15:48:24] <pleia2> I'd like to see this wrapped up under the 1 hr mark, any closing remarks? loose ends we haven't given action items for?
[15:48:40] <elky> svaksha?
[15:48:47] <akgraner> do we need a new doodle poll?
[15:48:48] <pleia2> we need to schedule our next meeting in 2 weeks, can someone be responsible for that?
[15:48:55] <pleia2> akgraner: mind reader :)
[15:48:56] <elky> pleia2, um, did we just skip over althara's thing?
[15:49:10] <pleia2> elky: althara's thing?
[15:49:25] <elky> second thing
[15:49:29] <pleia2> we discussed percentages and goals already...
[15:49:41] <pleia2> no vote, but we got the discussion started
[15:49:42] <maco> svaksha: sent
[15:49:42] <althara> did we agree on anything?
[15:49:43] <AlanBell> we didn't agree on any specific target I think?
[15:49:44] <maco> elky: i sent her a log
[15:50:00] <pleia2> AlanBell: no
[15:50:01] <elky> pleia2, i didn't see mention of 50% which i wanted to challenge, but ok.
[15:50:33] <pleia2> elky: oh sorry, I thought that was implied with our discussion of percentages earlier :)
[15:50:57] <AlanBell> I think 50% is way off the scale
[15:50:58] <pleia2> do we want to discuss it?
[15:51:06] <elky> AlanBell, agreed
[15:51:11] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Goal - 50% women on Ubuntu Members roster
[15:51:27] <elky> pleia2, depends. I mainly wanted to discuss why this was a set up for failure :)
[15:51:29] <pleia2> I want this project to be long gone the 50% mark is reached
[15:51:34] <svaksha> maco: thanks,
[15:51:35] <pleia2> s/the/before the
[15:51:43] <elky> pleia2, that too
[15:51:52] <AlanBell> % of women in computer science is about %20
[15:51:56] <MarkDude366MHz> Perfection is a good goal - it's our aiming point.
[15:52:01] <pleia2> and yeah, I agree that it's setting us up for failure
[15:52:02] <AlanBell> population closer to %50
[15:52:08] <elky> pleia2, the main point i wanted to make was that 50% is something sooooooooooo far in the future that it needs incremental goals first
[15:52:08] * popey is reminded of bug 1
[15:52:08] <ubottu> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/1 (Timeout)
[15:52:17] <pleia2> MarkDude366MHz: I disagree, I think achievable goals are much better :)
[15:52:26] <pleia2> elky: agreed
[15:52:28] <elky> popey, the bot needs reminding too it seems
[15:52:32] * MarkDude366MHz is part of a board that is 3/5 women. It happens.
[15:52:33] <althara> elky: Yes, AlanBell and I discussed that on the channel many times
[15:52:33] <popey> heh
[15:52:35] * pleia2 pets ubottu
[15:52:43] <maco> !botsnack
[15:52:44] <ubottu> Yum! Err, I mean, APT!
[15:53:01] <pleia2> is there anyone who disagrees with this point?
[15:53:05] <elky> althara, ah, it was on the agenda, i wasn't aware it was a moot point
[15:53:06] <pleia2> (you can speak up :))
[15:53:07] <althara> popey: yes, bug one was the reference
[15:53:08] <AlanBell> I think 20% as a long term aspiration would be more reasonable
[15:53:13] <AlanBell> !bug1
[15:53:16] <maco> double digit percentages by 2012?
[15:53:21] <elky> AlanBell, 25% methinks, but sure
[15:53:28] <elky> maco, ooh that'd be nice
[15:53:34] <elky> maco, we'd be in line with Drupal then
[15:53:46] <elky> (who would hopefully be more than 10% by then)
[15:53:51] <pleia2> that would mean quite a bit more than .5% growth per release :)
[15:53:51] <AlanBell> elky: ok, I will let you have that one 25% :-)
[15:54:14] * pleia2 peers at the clock
[15:54:28] <AlanBell> however on a per cycle basis I think 0.5, 1, 1.5 or 2%
[15:54:41] <maco> elky: i *think* our curve for membership will not be linear. as we get more women, the ball should roll faster, right? so if we got to 5% by june, maybe that increase will make 6% (instead of 5.5) possible a year from now...that kind of thing
[15:54:42] <pleia2> can someone go ahead and add a section to the bottom of http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers outlining goal options?
[15:54:53] <pleia2> then we can bump it to the list and discuss it there, and at our next meeting
[15:54:56] <svaksha> AlanBell: that's acheivable
[15:54:56] <AlanBell> pleia2: there is
[15:55:05] <maco> yeah what AlanBell said
[15:55:26] <AlanBell> section called What would we have to do to change it in the next cycle?
[15:55:27] <elky> maco, i think it's doable by the end of 2012
[15:55:33] <maco> elky: ageed
[15:55:42] <MarkDude366MHz> AlanBell,'s numbers are right on the whole.
[15:56:01] <elky> that gives us effectively 3 years to double what we've achieved in 5 on an incremental scale
[15:56:10] <MarkDude366MHz> locally % regionally it can be higher, that's all I saying
[15:56:20] <maco> so what AlanBell says would make 5% june, 6% jan 2011, 7.5% june 2011, 9.5% jan 2012... if we expected .5% compounded improvement per 6mo
[15:56:21] <pleia2> ok, that should be sufficient
[15:56:25] <MarkDude366MHz> s/ I / I'm
[15:56:32] <elky> maco, yep
[15:56:47] <elky> yes, lets wrap up
[15:56:48] <AlanBell> err, no
[15:57:06] <maco> er s/june/july/ ? i fail at 6mo
[15:57:11] <pleia2> [ACTION] Percentage goal decision to be discussed further
[15:57:15] <AlanBell> maco: lets go through the graphs after the meeting
[15:57:19] <maco> AlanBell: ok
[15:57:30] <pleia2> [TOPIC] Conclusion (for real this time)
[15:57:36] <elky> AlanBell, i think it's plausible. not guaranteed, but plausible
[15:57:49] <akgraner> so doodle poll or same day and time in 2 weeks?
[15:58:17] <elky> akgraner, doodle
[15:58:19] <AlanBell> elky: plausible, but not what I said/meant
[15:58:19] <pleia2> akgraner: doodle poll (everyone here will probably say thist ime is fine ;))
[15:58:32] <akgraner> can do :-)
[15:58:49] <pleia2> [ACTION] akgraner to create doodle poll for our next meeting in 2 weeks
[15:58:49] <althara> less than 1 minute left!
[15:58:50] <elky> AlanBell, the way i read it she's basing her desires off your info, not interpreting it
[15:59:02] <pleia2> ok, final thing is a quick announcement
[15:59:16] <elky> ooh?
[15:59:24] <pleia2> tomorrow (Jan 8th UTC) is the last day to get testimonials added to leadership apps
[15:59:47] <pleia2> once the clock changes to Jan 9th UTC I'll be putting together the email to the CC
[16:00:23] <pleia2> I will Cc: the candidates on this email, should I Cc: the list?
[16:00:31] <svaksha> yes
[16:00:33] <pleia2> ok
[16:01:01] <elky> pleia2, if it's not too much to ask, can we have a mail to the list explaining how it's not an election please? otherwise we're going to have some disappointed people who want to vote after the 8th :-/
[16:01:03] <pleia2> thanks for coming everyone :)
[16:01:29] <elky> pleia2, thanks for chairing :)
[16:01:38] <akgraner> thanks pleia2
[16:01:39] <pleia2> elky: hm, I thought the process was pretty clear
[16:01:42] <JanC> well, it's an election by the CC
[16:01:52] <svaksha> pleia2: thanks
[16:01:53] <elky> and dont forget to close mootbot off lest i have to steal your nick to stop it
[16:02:04] <elky> JanC, no, it's an appointment by CC
[16:02:23] <svaksha> elky: it was clearly mentioned that Cc gets to choose
[16:02:27] <elky> pleia2, i'm explaining it to someone every other day, so i think it's been lost on some
[16:02:55] <JanC> well, I guess the CC will still "vote" internally (if there is no consensus)
[16:02:56] <elky> and i think some might be holding back on their testimonials because of it
[16:02:56] <afigueir1s> thank you all, these meeting are very enlightening
[16:03:03] <pleia2> [ACTION] pleia2 will drop an email to the list now saying tomorrow is the last day before we send the list to the CC
[16:03:10] <svaksha> elky: err..why?
[16:03:32] <elky> svaksha, because they're misunderstanding the process. i'd rather not leave anyone feeling left out if it's at all possible
[16:04:05] <pleia2> #endmeeting