Started logging meeting in #ubuntu-meeting
[16:06:46] <sabdfl> hello
[16:06:49] <popey> hi
[16:06:59] <popey> we have two things on the agenda..
[16:07:26] * popey pings AlanBell
[16:07:39] <popey> you about AlanBell to talk about "Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com"
[16:08:08] <AlanBell> hi
[16:08:21] <popey> [TOPIC] Allowing non-English posts on planet.ubuntu.com
[16:08:30] <popey> woot, i can drive the bot after all
[16:08:37] <popey> AlanBell: did you want to discuss that at this meeting?
[16:08:52] <AlanBell> right, so there has been some discussion recently about posts on the planet in non-english languages
[16:09:09] <AlanBell> and it was suggested that it might be a topic to discuss with the CC
[16:09:45] <AlanBell> personally I am in favour of people writing in an assortment of languages, the planet is an aggregation of "what Members write"
[16:09:46] <popey> what's your thinking?
[16:10:22] <pleia2> there is currently no prohibition on non-english posts, the guidelines are "should attempt to use English where possible to reach the widest possible audience"
[16:11:11] <pleia2> if you're not interested in reaching the "widest possible audience" I don't really see a problem with non-english posts
[16:11:11] <AlanBell> true enough, but there was a rather negative reaction to one recent non-english post
[16:11:27] <AlanBell> that is my view too
[16:11:30] <sabdfl> i would rather we set up appropriate planets for other languages
[16:11:32] <popey> would there be a problem once the proportion of EN to non-EN gets above a certain threshold and the planet becomes 'mostly non-EN' at which point EN speakers will find it problematic to read?
[16:11:35] <sabdfl> fr.planet.ubuntu.com
[16:11:41] <popey> i agree
[16:12:00] <AlanBell> there are other language planets, and loco planets
[16:12:05] <sabdfl> along with an offer of translation volunteers for *particularly* noteworthy blogs (or even just reposts of links to translate.google.*)
[16:12:09] <popey> no reason not to aggregate those planets on a global planet
[16:12:28] <sabdfl> popey: except, while it's romantic in concept, nobody would actually read it
[16:12:36] <popey> true
[16:12:48] <popey> unless there was technical magic that made them all $my_locale
[16:12:59] <AlanBell> the language planets that exist are not just posts of Ubuntu Members
[16:13:03] <popey> i.e. google chrome
[16:13:14] <sabdfl> would you subscribe to a feed that you could only understand 20% of? and if ubuntu continues to grow as wonderfully, english will be 20% of the total, max
[16:13:32] <popey> if it was automagically translated, yes, probably
[16:13:32] <sabdfl> can i haz babelfish?
[16:13:36] <sabdfl> oh dear
[16:13:40] <sabdfl> i think i screwed that up
[16:13:40] <AlanBell> I would (but I doubt it would get that much)
[16:13:45] <sabdfl> i can haz babelfish?
[16:13:52] <sabdfl> to eat?
[16:13:57] <AlanBell> nom
[16:14:15] <popey> heh, yet another 10.10.10. idea :)
[16:14:20] <czajkowski> AlanBell: but it could. and while you can click on a post and open it up and translate a post, having them all in one RSS feed like many do would lead to a lot of cranky people trying to read the planet
[16:14:36] <popey> or cranky people _not_ reading the planet
[16:14:42] <sabdfl> let's call it Project Babelfish :-)
[16:14:50] <czajkowski> cranky folks are not what we want really :)
[16:15:18] <AlanBell> the raison d'etre of the planet is to aggregate members, not to aggregate great English blogs about Ubuntu
[16:15:57] <popey> I suspect most would rather subscribe to a planet they can read than one they cannot
[16:16:43] <popey> as sabdfl suggested a romantic idea to let everyone post in their own language, but ultimately who would hear the tree fall?
[16:16:45] <AlanBell> also makes for a damn good test of UTF-8 and RTL support in assorted feed readers :-)
[16:16:54] <sabdfl> that's true :-)
[16:17:57] <AlanBell> it really isn't going to end up with masses of posts in other languages, just looking at the demographics of the members
[16:19:18] <AlanBell> if it gets to 80% english, 20% others I would be surprised, and I would also be quite capable of translating the ones with interesting looking pictures, and skiping the ones that I don't feel like putting the effort into reading
[16:19:23] <pleia2> AlanBell: I tend to agree
[16:20:03] <AlanBell> at the moment we have a rule, phrased as a guideline (like the pirate code arrr)
[16:20:44] <AlanBell> which results in the occasional post in non-english having a load of nasty comments on it and people pointing at the rule/guideline as a justification for their negativity
[16:21:03] <huats> I think something that should be considered is also the web indexing. I am not sure of how it would be handled in many languages. (well I am not sure if I can speak or not)
[16:21:04] <popey> i do like the idea of separate planets, or feeds which allow people to select which langs they can see
[16:22:00] <AlanBell> yup, some kind of technical tagging enhancement would be great
[16:22:08] <popey> well
[16:22:10] <Daviey> Hello!
[16:22:15] <pleia2> separate feeds would be nice
[16:22:20] <AlanBell> planet.ubuntu.com/fr+en would be kind of awesome
[16:22:21] <popey> introducing Daviey and his new magic planet :)
[16:22:26] <pleia2> not so much separate planets :\
[16:22:38] <AlanBell> moons perhaps?
[16:22:46] <popey> on sticks?
[16:22:51] <Daviey> Okay... planet won't really scale for multi language planets IMO
[16:23:02] <Daviey> as in planet, planet that we currently have
[16:23:14] <Daviey> you will have to forgive me, i'm not exactly prepared for this topic :/
[16:23:28] <popey> sorry, i poked Daviey a moment ago knowing he's worked on this
[16:23:40] <popey> well, this being planets, not this being multi-lingual planets
[16:23:45] <sabdfl> well, nasty comments should not go unchallenged, though gently
[16:24:06] <Daviey> http://ubuntuuk.daviey.com/planet/ <-- is an old design, based on a fork of a django based planet app called feedjack
[16:24:21] <Daviey> ^^ that includes openid support, with team based authentication access
[16:24:28] <sabdfl> sweet!
[16:24:44] <AlanBell> sabdfl: the comments were addressed appropriately
[16:25:06] <Daviey> http://erk.daviey.com/u-uk-planet.png <-- is the newer implementation
[16:25:29] <Daviey> (note the button to Add Planet)
[16:25:50] <sabdfl> note the button theme, generally
[16:25:55] <Daviey> When a user adds there feed, it would be reasonably trival to ask what language they will be posting in
[16:26:08] <inetpro> how about all.planet.ubuntu.com to give those few who would like to read everything a page with all the lingos
[16:27:14] <Daviey> planet.ubuntu.com{/fr/,/de/,/etc/} seems like a good fit?
[16:27:18] <popey> i think the technical implementation of how one subscribes can be figured out later, i guess the main question is not 'how should we' but 'should we'
[16:27:33] <inetpro> I certainly would not want to waste my bandwidth downloading pages that I have can not possibly understand
[16:28:09] <inetpro> s/I have can/I can/
[16:28:19] * Daviey finds it frustrating when his native language isn't posted on the planet... I obviously don't object, but i would prefer to see it natively. :)
[16:28:31] <pleia2> as long as the main planet.ubuntu.com remains an aggregation of all feeds, I'm happy with any solution, I wouldn't want to segregate out folks who aren't english-speaking members
[16:28:51] <pleia2> but if someone really wants english only, planet.ubuntu.com/en/ would be nice
[16:29:00] <popey> that sounds fair
[16:29:03] * AlanBell agrees with pleia2
[16:29:06] <popey> especially if it's well documented
[16:29:17] <Daviey> pleia2: It could be possible to hide your non-native language via cookies.. which would fit both ideas
[16:29:18] <popey> we could totally blog about this! ;)
[16:29:30] <AlanBell> popey: but in English please
[16:29:34] <popey> Daviey: hard to do with rss readers surely?
[16:29:49] <drubin> Daviey: Noo that breaks rrss readers
[16:29:51] <Daviey> popey: in that instance you use a language based url, ie /de
[16:29:57] <popey> right
[16:30:22] * Daviey just throws these crazy ideas out there..
[16:30:27] <popey> Daviey: would you be willing to work on a demo site that had these features?
[16:30:36] <popey> indeed do you have the time to?
[16:30:52] <Daviey> popey: Yes.. i think there is a team of people eager to get involved :)
[16:30:59] <popey> :)
[16:31:01] <pleia2> woohoo
[16:31:01] <Daviey> they just need some extra encouragement
[16:31:21] <popey> AlanBell: does that sound acceptable?
[16:31:25] * Daviey waves at mhall119 o/ cjohnston o/ and some others
[16:31:37] <AlanBell> certainly does
[16:32:08] <AlanBell> Daviey: one blog could easily have posts in two or more languages remember
[16:32:26] <popey> [ACTION] daviey to work (with others) on a demo multi-lingual planet
[16:32:37] <popey> AlanBell: implementation details ;)
[16:32:44] <Daviey> AlanBell: yeah.. i think version 1 would really need pre-declaring what language your primary posts will be in.
[16:32:46] <popey> anyone else got any comments on this topic?
[16:32:55] <pleia2> nope, thanks Daviey!
[16:32:58] <AlanBell> ok, so keep the rule/guideline in place until the technical enhancement is built
[16:33:20] <Daviey> AlanBell: If you want to brainstorm ideas, that would be equally appreciated!
[16:33:45] * Daviey declares AlanBell his "Architect"
[16:33:46] <AlanBell> Daviey: yup, and we should pull in some people who actually post in other languages
[16:34:04] <popey> great stuff chaps!
[16:34:06] * AlanBell adjusts fees accordingly
[16:34:12] * inetpro will watch this debate with a great deal of interest
[16:34:16] <Daviey> OK.. thanks for having me.. Returning to lurk mode o/
[16:34:21] <AlanBell> o/
[16:34:24] <popey> thanks Daviey much appreciated
[16:34:29] <inetpro> we have 11 official languages in South Africa
[16:34:31] <popey> [TOPIC] Adding the FSF blog to planet.ubuntu.com
[16:34:46] <popey> dpic is not about and brought this up on the mailing list
[16:34:54] <sabdfl> i don't think having a default language for the project is discriminatory
[16:35:15] <sabdfl> i think we should certainly create facilities to encourage expression in any language
[16:36:02] <sabdfl> i think the default url, planet.ubuntu.com shoudl stay English, as that's the language used for debate, development and major announcements
[16:36:21] <inetpro> sabdfl: for now that is :-)
[16:36:48] <sabdfl> sorry, i was catching up, and didn't want to let the multi-lingual meme get carried away
[16:36:51] <charlie-tca> I agree with sabdfl. A default language does not discriminate.
[16:37:13] <popey> thanks sabdfl
[16:37:20] <popey> ok, moving on, FSF on planet ubuntu?
[16:37:31] <popey> the suggestion was made that they tag entries with 'ubuntu'
[16:37:34] <pleia2> I don't think it discriminates, I just think it would be unfortunate to miss out on the international flavor of the project (I use chrome's translate feature often)
[16:37:54] <sabdfl> pleia2: let's have a separate aggregator, /+babel
[16:38:03] <sabdfl> anyhoo, moving along with the chair
[16:38:38] <sabdfl> any seconds for the tag suggestion?
[16:39:00] <popey> +1 for the hhgttg reference
[16:39:12] <pleia2> seems reasonable, pretty much in line with the corporate blog policy
[16:39:20] <Technoviking> the seems fine to me
[16:39:39] <popey> +1 to the tag
[16:39:50] <sabdfl> i'm interested to see if they acknowledge that we've always been on the pragmatic side of the copyleft debate
[16:40:06] <sabdfl> (+1 from me too)
[16:40:15] <sabdfl> i think that's quorum
[16:41:29] <popey> the suggestion was sent to Danny.
[16:41:43] <popey> should we confirm via mail to Danny that this is the decision of the CC?
[16:42:28] <pleia2> can't hurt
[16:43:27] <sabdfl> i'm happy to err on the side of being a big tent with lots of voices inside
[16:43:35] <sabdfl> http://ebb.org/bkuhn/blog/2010/01/14/ubuntu-debian.html
[16:43:47] <popey> sorry, mum just called having trouble getting her mail in chrome on ubuntu
[16:43:50] <popey> brb
[16:45:30] <popey> back
[16:45:37] <popey> \o/ vnc over ssh
[16:45:46] <sabdfl> braveheart
[16:45:59] <pleia2> :)
[16:46:21] <sabdfl> so yes, popey could you reply to danny, affirmative with tag for relevance?
[16:46:28] <popey> sure
[16:46:45] <popey> [ACTION] popey to reply to Danny with recommendation that FSF use Ubuntu tag for posts to planet ubuntu
[16:47:07] <popey> [TOPIC] Any Other Business
[16:47:09] <popey> Anything?
[16:47:26] <sabdfl> all clear here. should report that debconf this year was most welcoming yet, at least to me
[16:47:36] <sabdfl> jorge gave a great talk on ubuntu-debian relations
[16:47:38] <pleia2> that's great to hear :)
[16:47:38] <Technoviking> excellent:)
[16:47:52] <popey> oh yes, you gave a talk on Unity?
[16:48:00] <sabdfl> well received, interesting questions, only one pointed comment on U1 which is understandable
[16:48:01] <popey> was it videoed?
[16:48:06] <czajkowski> shall we be seeing the CC doing monthly reports from now on ?
[16:48:17] <sabdfl> i think it was, not my greatest oratory but the questions were good
[16:48:17] <popey> czajkowski: ok, will do one
[16:48:35] <popey> [ACTION] popey to do monthly report for the CC this month
[16:48:42] <sabdfl> popey: does shakespeare have any good quotes to the effect of "YOU ROCK"?
[16:48:57] <sabdfl> if so, i doth quoth the bard in your direction ;-)
[16:49:06] <popey> arf
[16:49:23] <czajkowski> grin
[16:49:29] * czajkowski hugs popey THANK YOU
[16:49:30] <sabdfl> is that a wrap?
[16:49:33] * ajmitch agrees on jcastro's talk being excellent, the bit of it that could be heard on the live stream :)
[16:49:35] * popey takes the bottle of gin from sabdfl
[16:49:41] * inetpro lol
[16:49:50] <AlanBell> "shall I compare thee to a summer's day?" is probably the closest
[16:49:50] <popey> yes
[16:49:53] <pleia2> thanks everyone
[16:49:57] <pleia2> AlanBell: haha
[16:49:58] <sabdfl> ftr, i'm jetlagged, not gin-lagged ;-)
[16:49:58] <popey> #endmeeting
Meeting ended.